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	<title>Comments on: So You Think You Can Dance: Finale!</title>
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		<title>By: Idetrorce</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Idetrorce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>very interesting, but I don&#039;t agree with you
Idetrorce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very interesting, but I don&#8217;t agree with you<br />
Idetrorce</p>
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		<title>By: Moses</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>Moses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-272</guid>
		<description>g&#039;day.

I just saw what is probably a replay of the 2007 finale.  I was wondeing who the special performer in the bowler hat and glasses is.  He danced to &quot;Ain&#039;t no other man&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>g&#8217;day.</p>
<p>I just saw what is probably a replay of the 2007 finale.  I was wondeing who the special performer in the bowler hat and glasses is.  He danced to &#8220;Ain&#8217;t no other man&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zing</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Zing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-271</guid>
		<description>I think the problem with Danny was that he&#039;s a very complex individual - I mean, his background alone (which he never really spoke about) and being adopted by Travis&#039; mother, of all people! It&#039;s the stuff of Lifetime TV. That kind of personal hardship might have endeared him to audiences, but he seems to be much too private and guarded to open up to the camera.

I didn&#039;t watch Season 1, so I can&#039;t comment on Blake, but Benji won partially through sheer force of character - his openness made him such a likeable person to support and vote for. Danny&#039;s discomfort with the camera and his reticence in speaking about his public life is understandable and even justified, but it probably partially contributed to the supposed arrogance and coldness of his onscreen persona. When judges told him off for that, I think they were reacting to his persona more than his person.

Unfortunately, a lot of his persona is down to editing alone. You never really got to see Danny&#039;s candid self, the part of him that goofs off and makes him a likeable, relate-able (is that even a word?) character - most of what we saw was an incredibly talented dancer, always professional and always stoic - but also slightly distant and removed. Remember his &quot;yes sir&quot; to Nigel? But in the edit of the clip you linked, you can see Danny joking, Danny walking into an elevator door (HAHA - oh Danny). It was just unfortunate that the editors took this long to show that part of him.

CHANGING TACK IN THE LONGEST COMMENT EVER:
I thought the Robson routine was really interesting. I&#039;m following this show from overseas, so I only saw clips without the judges&#039; feedback - but I understood the piece anyway. I think you&#039;re right in saying that the judges feel pressurized to &quot;dumb down&quot; the complexity of the routines for the benefit of the audience.

This is partially true, because the routines audiences react best to rest on simple concepts - &quot;boy meets girl, relationship ensues&quot; (Lacey/Kameron contemporary routine) or &quot;father dies, girl cries&quot; (Neil/Lacey again). But more complicated dance routines have also been tested and proven successful: the &quot;robot Transformer hip-hop&quot; by Pasha and Lauren and the &quot;hummingbird/flower ballet&quot; by Hok and Jaime. Considering that some fans are even irritated that the routines have been &quot;dumbed down&quot; since Season 1 (again I can&#039;t comment), I think the producers of the show would do well not to underestimate the audience.

So I really don&#039;t see what the big fuss was about! I mean, the judges themselves have always emphasised the importance of having a &quot;backstory&quot; to the dance.

Like you said, I also really wish they had two men dancing together in sync as in a contemporary or lyrical dance, as opposed to dancing against each other (Neil/Danny&#039;s  fight-dance) or in a way that&#039;s meant to be goofy and comedic (Benji/Travis&#039; nerd dance from last season). Nigel&#039;s bitching about dancers not being &quot;masculine&quot; enough might finally stop if they had two male dancers dancing in a way that showcased the combination of power, grace and strength that male dancers have. (This isn&#039;t to say that female dancers don&#039;t possess these traits, but very few of them can perform on the same physical level as male dancers.)

Anyway, THANK YOU for justifying my irrational love for this show. Being able to have meta-SYTYCD has made this show even better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem with Danny was that he&#8217;s a very complex individual &#8211; I mean, his background alone (which he never really spoke about) and being adopted by Travis&#8217; mother, of all people! It&#8217;s the stuff of Lifetime TV. That kind of personal hardship might have endeared him to audiences, but he seems to be much too private and guarded to open up to the camera.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t watch Season 1, so I can&#8217;t comment on Blake, but Benji won partially through sheer force of character &#8211; his openness made him such a likeable person to support and vote for. Danny&#8217;s discomfort with the camera and his reticence in speaking about his public life is understandable and even justified, but it probably partially contributed to the supposed arrogance and coldness of his onscreen persona. When judges told him off for that, I think they were reacting to his persona more than his person.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, a lot of his persona is down to editing alone. You never really got to see Danny&#8217;s candid self, the part of him that goofs off and makes him a likeable, relate-able (is that even a word?) character &#8211; most of what we saw was an incredibly talented dancer, always professional and always stoic &#8211; but also slightly distant and removed. Remember his &#8220;yes sir&#8221; to Nigel? But in the edit of the clip you linked, you can see Danny joking, Danny walking into an elevator door (HAHA &#8211; oh Danny). It was just unfortunate that the editors took this long to show that part of him.</p>
<p>CHANGING TACK IN THE LONGEST COMMENT EVER:<br />
I thought the Robson routine was really interesting. I&#8217;m following this show from overseas, so I only saw clips without the judges&#8217; feedback &#8211; but I understood the piece anyway. I think you&#8217;re right in saying that the judges feel pressurized to &#8220;dumb down&#8221; the complexity of the routines for the benefit of the audience.</p>
<p>This is partially true, because the routines audiences react best to rest on simple concepts &#8211; &#8220;boy meets girl, relationship ensues&#8221; (Lacey/Kameron contemporary routine) or &#8220;father dies, girl cries&#8221; (Neil/Lacey again). But more complicated dance routines have also been tested and proven successful: the &#8220;robot Transformer hip-hop&#8221; by Pasha and Lauren and the &#8220;hummingbird/flower ballet&#8221; by Hok and Jaime. Considering that some fans are even irritated that the routines have been &#8220;dumbed down&#8221; since Season 1 (again I can&#8217;t comment), I think the producers of the show would do well not to underestimate the audience.</p>
<p>So I really don&#8217;t see what the big fuss was about! I mean, the judges themselves have always emphasised the importance of having a &#8220;backstory&#8221; to the dance.</p>
<p>Like you said, I also really wish they had two men dancing together in sync as in a contemporary or lyrical dance, as opposed to dancing against each other (Neil/Danny&#8217;s  fight-dance) or in a way that&#8217;s meant to be goofy and comedic (Benji/Travis&#8217; nerd dance from last season). Nigel&#8217;s bitching about dancers not being &#8220;masculine&#8221; enough might finally stop if they had two male dancers dancing in a way that showcased the combination of power, grace and strength that male dancers have. (This isn&#8217;t to say that female dancers don&#8217;t possess these traits, but very few of them can perform on the same physical level as male dancers.)</p>
<p>Anyway, THANK YOU for justifying my irrational love for this show. Being able to have meta-SYTYCD has made this show even better.</p>
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		<title>By: burbly</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>burbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-270</guid>
		<description>Oh noes! A homework assignment! Et tu, John, et tu. ;)

I did read your previous post, and the thing is, I always thought Nigel was mostly angry on the chubby lyrical dancer&#039;s behalf, condescending though he was.

I still feel ambivalent about the whole incident. As you say, the dancer&#039;s body &quot;got in the way.&quot; But what does that imply about dance and the physical body? Doesn&#039;t that mean that his body wasn&#039;t integrated in his dance in some way, and is it a cultural anxiety about fatness, or is it a commentary on a dance aesthetic where the dancer tries to be pure lines and movement instead of gross body? I just don&#039;t know.

And what about physical beauty? I&#039;m not sure I can definitively call homophobia on Nigel simply because the dancer embodied so many different &quot;othernesses.&quot;

Nigel, you&#039;ll notice, wasn&#039;t directly angry at the dancer, but at the audience&#039;s response. And I think implicit in their applause was the acknowledgment of the dancer&#039;s fat otherness, and it was that, I think, that Nigel railed against, a prizing of dance that wasn&#039;t integrated with the body (whether it&#039;s because of cultural anxiety or something else). Also, I think Nigel feels a special responsibility to narrate, which can be--ironically--patronizing.

No conclusion here, I&#039;m afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh noes! A homework assignment! Et tu, John, et tu. <img src='http://theoryculture.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I did read your previous post, and the thing is, I always thought Nigel was mostly angry on the chubby lyrical dancer&#8217;s behalf, condescending though he was.</p>
<p>I still feel ambivalent about the whole incident. As you say, the dancer&#8217;s body &#8220;got in the way.&#8221; But what does that imply about dance and the physical body? Doesn&#8217;t that mean that his body wasn&#8217;t integrated in his dance in some way, and is it a cultural anxiety about fatness, or is it a commentary on a dance aesthetic where the dancer tries to be pure lines and movement instead of gross body? I just don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>And what about physical beauty? I&#8217;m not sure I can definitively call homophobia on Nigel simply because the dancer embodied so many different &#8220;othernesses.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nigel, you&#8217;ll notice, wasn&#8217;t directly angry at the dancer, but at the audience&#8217;s response. And I think implicit in their applause was the acknowledgment of the dancer&#8217;s fat otherness, and it was that, I think, that Nigel railed against, a prizing of dance that wasn&#8217;t integrated with the body (whether it&#8217;s because of cultural anxiety or something else). Also, I think Nigel feels a special responsibility to narrate, which can be&#8211;ironically&#8211;patronizing.</p>
<p>No conclusion here, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-260</guid>
		<description>Maria, thanks for the kind words. I think I forgot to mention, but thanks so much, too, for your comments on a previous point, which caught some slips in choreography around time in a previous Latin dance. That&#039;s the sharp eye I don&#039;t have. Much appreciated.

Emily, I think you&#039;re right about the outside-the-market thing. Dance isn&#039;t the big consumer item and won&#039;t be in the foreseeable future, so that&#039;s the hope for a summer boutique show. It&#039;s also, sadly, a reflection of where the show leads. Alas.

Burbly, I think you&#039;re right on with your thoughts. For sure. I thought the same with Ricky and the heteronormative issues around size and pairing:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/06/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-week-iv/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Thoughts on Week IV&lt;/a&gt;

I agree with your straightforward conclusion: it&#039;s a tricky problem. Like the problem of dance aesthetics and cultural conceptions of masculinity, there isn&#039;t a way to win, especially given, as you nicely put it, that the norm doesn&#039;t have to be explained. As it stands, I really think it is how the show manifests cultural norms and, inevitably, anxieties. The anxieties come in moments where we&#039;re drawn in by the beauty, yet pushed back out by incompatibility with social norms and rules.

I do remember that first season, and that moment in particular. There was a moment in the second week that reminded me of the first season, though it was in tryouts. My suspicion is that the two are linked, at least a little bit, in the consciousness of the judges. (Apologies for pimping my own posts!)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/06/01/so-you-think-you-can-dance-part-ii/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Week II thoughts...&lt;/a&gt;

Thanks for that long comment. Really interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maria, thanks for the kind words. I think I forgot to mention, but thanks so much, too, for your comments on a previous point, which caught some slips in choreography around time in a previous Latin dance. That&#8217;s the sharp eye I don&#8217;t have. Much appreciated.</p>
<p>Emily, I think you&#8217;re right about the outside-the-market thing. Dance isn&#8217;t the big consumer item and won&#8217;t be in the foreseeable future, so that&#8217;s the hope for a summer boutique show. It&#8217;s also, sadly, a reflection of where the show leads. Alas.</p>
<p>Burbly, I think you&#8217;re right on with your thoughts. For sure. I thought the same with Ricky and the heteronormative issues around size and pairing:</p>
<p><a href="http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/06/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-week-iv/" rel="nofollow">Thoughts on Week IV</a></p>
<p>I agree with your straightforward conclusion: it&#8217;s a tricky problem. Like the problem of dance aesthetics and cultural conceptions of masculinity, there isn&#8217;t a way to win, especially given, as you nicely put it, that the norm doesn&#8217;t have to be explained. As it stands, I really think it is how the show manifests cultural norms and, inevitably, anxieties. The anxieties come in moments where we&#8217;re drawn in by the beauty, yet pushed back out by incompatibility with social norms and rules.</p>
<p>I do remember that first season, and that moment in particular. There was a moment in the second week that reminded me of the first season, though it was in tryouts. My suspicion is that the two are linked, at least a little bit, in the consciousness of the judges. (Apologies for pimping my own posts!)</p>
<p><a href="http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/06/01/so-you-think-you-can-dance-part-ii/" rel="nofollow">Week II thoughts&#8230;</a></p>
<p>Thanks for that long comment. Really interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: jlove</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>jlove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-269</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m such a fan of danny&#039;s..he should havwe won!!! I&#039;m happy for sabra but even she has to know that it&#039;s what the judges were aiming for all season. The better winner lost the show but he COULDN&#039;T be a bigger winner in my book...for me he is perfection</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m such a fan of danny&#8217;s..he should havwe won!!! I&#8217;m happy for sabra but even she has to know that it&#8217;s what the judges were aiming for all season. The better winner lost the show but he COULDN&#8217;T be a bigger winner in my book&#8230;for me he is perfection</p>
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		<title>By: Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-268</guid>
		<description>[...]  So You Think You Can Dance: Finale! [image]OK, so the really important summer television is over. The finale of So You Think You Can Dance? is finished and [&#8230;] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  So You Think You Can Dance: Finale! [image]OK, so the really important summer television is over. The finale of So You Think You Can Dance? is finished and [&#8230;] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patti</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>Patti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-267</guid>
		<description>Does anyone find it hard to believe that Sabra has only been dancing for four years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone find it hard to believe that Sabra has only been dancing for four years?</p>
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		<title>By: burbly</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>burbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-266</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that I agree completely about the masculine anxiety--though I don&#039;t dispute its existence--simply because I think it&#039;s primarily a structural problem of the show.

I don&#039;t know if you saw season one, but Allan and Melody danced a lyrical (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9M6kpqIO58k) that landed them in the bottom 4. It was such an absurd and awkward dance to watch because of their size disparity, and I think because Allan&#039;s size contributed to his clumsy movements. To some extent, I think it&#039;s this spectre (and poor Jamile picking ballroom a disproportionate amount of the time) that drove the restructuring of the show that led to set partners who would look the least absurd together and to try to pick people who fit a physical type.

It&#039;s sort of the eternal problem of pop culture isn&#039;t it? Pop&#039;s uneasy symbiosis with culture. On one hand, the show needs to be accessible while being &quot;unique&quot;--the same problem the contestants have, not forgetting that this is a popularity contest.

Because of the mish-mash nature of the show (seriously, John, love this idea), the more structured dances like ballroom, which require a strong masculine and a feminine persona, limit their contestants within their narrower bounds (than, say, lyrical).

Actually, I&#039;d love to see two men or two women dancing together--romantically or otherwise--but at this point in time it&#039;s an other--John might label it an anxiety--that really becomes an unfairness to the contestants who are themselves competing in this popularity contest. I mean, look at my poor darling Ricky and his partner Ashlee who were eliminated (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KouayJIxTE) because he looked so disproportionately small next to her in the Tango with her in high heels. Her head also looked huge next to his. And this was only a minor deviation from the heteronormative. (I&#039;m reminded of the story of Fred Astaire and Ann Miller in Easter Parade where she was forced to wear flats in every scene she danced with Fred because she was too tall, but when she would walk off the dance floor her flats became heels.)

The problem is that any sort of physical or even social type would have to be explained or made a feature of whereas the norm obviously doesn&#039;t. Allan&#039;s size would have had to be accounted for, for it to have not seemed ridiculous (Allan&#039;s an oak, Melody&#039;s a sprite...go!), which is made even more difficult by the necessity of the dancers to be often male-female cogs for each (semi) random new dance they pick from the hat. The other real issue is partners dragging the other down (Cedric) or being propped up (Kameron).

&quot;Solving&quot; the problem of random assignment of disparate-looking partners   meant locking them into partnerships that would fail due to incompatibility. Plus, I miss the variety of different partnerships from season 1, especially since this is ultimately and individual, not couple competition. It&#039;s a tricky problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I agree completely about the masculine anxiety&#8211;though I don&#8217;t dispute its existence&#8211;simply because I think it&#8217;s primarily a structural problem of the show.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you saw season one, but Allan and Melody danced a lyrical (<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=9M6kpqIO58k" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=9M6kpqIO58k</a>) that landed them in the bottom 4. It was such an absurd and awkward dance to watch because of their size disparity, and I think because Allan&#8217;s size contributed to his clumsy movements. To some extent, I think it&#8217;s this spectre (and poor Jamile picking ballroom a disproportionate amount of the time) that drove the restructuring of the show that led to set partners who would look the least absurd together and to try to pick people who fit a physical type.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sort of the eternal problem of pop culture isn&#8217;t it? Pop&#8217;s uneasy symbiosis with culture. On one hand, the show needs to be accessible while being &#8220;unique&#8221;&#8211;the same problem the contestants have, not forgetting that this is a popularity contest.</p>
<p>Because of the mish-mash nature of the show (seriously, John, love this idea), the more structured dances like ballroom, which require a strong masculine and a feminine persona, limit their contestants within their narrower bounds (than, say, lyrical).</p>
<p>Actually, I&#8217;d love to see two men or two women dancing together&#8211;romantically or otherwise&#8211;but at this point in time it&#8217;s an other&#8211;John might label it an anxiety&#8211;that really becomes an unfairness to the contestants who are themselves competing in this popularity contest. I mean, look at my poor darling Ricky and his partner Ashlee who were eliminated (<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KouayJIxTE" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KouayJIxTE</a>) because he looked so disproportionately small next to her in the Tango with her in high heels. Her head also looked huge next to his. And this was only a minor deviation from the heteronormative. (I&#8217;m reminded of the story of Fred Astaire and Ann Miller in Easter Parade where she was forced to wear flats in every scene she danced with Fred because she was too tall, but when she would walk off the dance floor her flats became heels.)</p>
<p>The problem is that any sort of physical or even social type would have to be explained or made a feature of whereas the norm obviously doesn&#8217;t. Allan&#8217;s size would have had to be accounted for, for it to have not seemed ridiculous (Allan&#8217;s an oak, Melody&#8217;s a sprite&#8230;go!), which is made even more difficult by the necessity of the dancers to be often male-female cogs for each (semi) random new dance they pick from the hat. The other real issue is partners dragging the other down (Cedric) or being propped up (Kameron).</p>
<p>&#8220;Solving&#8221; the problem of random assignment of disparate-looking partners   meant locking them into partnerships that would fail due to incompatibility. Plus, I miss the variety of different partnerships from season 1, especially since this is ultimately and individual, not couple competition. It&#8217;s a tricky problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Beckylooo</title>
		<link>http://theoryculture.com/94/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Beckylooo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theorymyculture.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/so-you-think-you-can-dance-finale/#comment-264</guid>
		<description>As usual, right on.  I thought of you in that moment where Danny made a crack to the camera about Nigel.  It really was perfection.

This has been such fun.  Thanks so much for your perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, right on.  I thought of you in that moment where Danny made a crack to the camera about Nigel.  It really was perfection.</p>
<p>This has been such fun.  Thanks so much for your perspective.</p>
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